Commons:Administrators' noticeboard/User problems
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This is a place where users can communicate with administrators, or administrators with one another. You can report vandalism, problematic users, or anything else that needs an administrator's intervention. Do not report child pornography or other potentially illegal content here; e-mail legal-reportswikimedia.org instead. If reporting threatened harm to self or others also email emergencywikimedia.org. | |||
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Note
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{{subst:Discussion-notice|noticeboard=COM:AN/U|thread=|reason=}} ~~~~
is available for this. - It is important to keep a cool head, especially when responding to comments against you or your edits. Personal attacks and disruptive comments only escalate a situation; Please try to remain civil with your comments.
- Administrators: Please make a note if a report is dealt with, to avoid unnecessary responses by other admins.
This user uploaded a [sfw] image of what they claimed was a fetishistic sex toy molded from a child’s body. They later tried to walk back on their claims and said they weren’t sure it was based on a real child and bought it for non-prurient reasons but it’s incredibly disturbing that they would mention such things in the first place. Now I might’ve (barely) let this slide as the behavior of a well-meaning eccentric who doesn’t speak good English but they have been blocked on three other wikis for disruption. I don’t think their unremarkable positive contributions justify tolerance of a known problem user who uploads appalling content that severely harms the reputation of Commons. Dronebogus (talk) 10:00, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- the most passive precaution must be to put this user on our watchlist. modern_primat ඞඞඞ ----TALK 15:39, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
Lalchhanhima hmar Zote
editLalchhanhima hmar Zote (talk · contributions · Statistics · Recent activity · block log · User rights log · uploads · Global account information)
Duhzuala (talk · contributions · Statistics · Recent activity · block log · User rights log · uploads · Global account information)
Sock trying to avoid block, see Category:Sockpuppets of Chhanchhana zote hmar. Jonteemil (talk) 01:21, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
- Also Duhzuala.Jonteemil (talk) 01:23, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
- Done Both indef blocked. Bedivere (talk) 02:05, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks, please also block Lalchhanhima zote hmar as yet another sock. Jonteemil (talk) 03:03, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
- Done The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 03:10, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
- And now also Malsawmdawngzeli. Jonteemil (talk) 01:43, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Done The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 03:10, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks, please also block Lalchhanhima zote hmar as yet another sock. Jonteemil (talk) 03:03, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
- Done Both indef blocked. Bedivere (talk) 02:05, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
User:JopkeB
editJopkeB (talk · contributions · Statistics · Recent activity · block log · User rights log · uploads · Global account information)
This user frequently submits the Categories for discussion (COM:CFD), but he/she seems mistakenly think that CFDs are the place for one-sided self-assertion and deletion games, and seems severely lack the efforts for sincear discussion. Even if answers are given to his/her initial questions, he/she almost always ignoring it, and repeats the same assertions and the same questions over and over again, exhausting the discussion and ultimately trying to only pass his/her own assertions. We believe that the current situation, in which a person with problematic discussion skills frequently submit COM:CFD and try to ignore dialog, is a hindrance to the autonomy of the community, so it requires appropriate guidance.
Case 1. Commons:Categories for discussion/2023/07/Category:Market exploration shops
Discussion about the purpose of the category and the addition of short description. Even the answer with reliable source and its English translation are given in intial phase, he/she didn't want to accept it, and prolonged the discussion by repeating baseless fantasies.
Case 2: Commons:Categories for discussion/2023/12/Category:Services (economics)
Based on the lesson learned from avobe Case 1, I asked this user if he/she would carefully read the other user's answer and discuss the issue in good faith, because it is an etiquette expected of everyone taking part in the discussion. However he/she avoid to respond to it, instead he/she posted his/her grievances on my talk page.
Case 3: Commons:Categories for discussion/2024/07/Category:Event spaces (venues)
Newest case in this week. While we were discussing the needs of a category without restriction of place as an extension of an existing category (limited to buildings/facilities), this user made false statements as if he/she have already discussed it on the RfD on the above existing category, and repeate the same assertion and the same question repeatedly to a question that has already been answered. In my eyes, he/she has not enough skills to discuss with other users.
I know the above discussion style is popular with some in Generation Z, but I've already been experiencing that type of argument destruction for about 30 years and am long tired of it, so I don't want to deal with this type of time wasting. --Clusternote (talk) 09:14, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- What exactly is wrong with asking for a description of what a Commons category should include? I don't think it was clear at the start of the discussion for any of the above three? Ideally, when creating a new category, you would have taken care of that. Enhancing999 (talk) 10:33, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- You're right, it's important to provide definitions and rationales when creating categories. I prefer to provide reliable sources and relevant Wikipedia articles as evidence in this regard, and take other measures when that isn't possible. --Clusternote (talk) 01:13, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Sorry, Clusternote, but CfD is precisely the place to discuss a category, and it is entirely correct to bring a category to CfD if its scope is unclear. I'd consider JopkeB to be among (at most) the few dozen best contributors to Commons in capacities other than just taking and uploading pictures. You are basically asking us to censure someone for doing things right and improving Commons. And as for your generational remark, I was born in 1954. - Jmabel ! talk 19:49, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- Media archives such as Wikimedia Commons tend to be folksonomy-oriented, and the resulting cluttered categories need to be organized; and on Wikimedia Commons where the community consensuses are respected, debates are inevitable. However, his/her argumentative skills, in which he/she ignores other user's opinions and pushes his own argument, are incompatible with a folksonomy-driven culture, and it may cause of hindrance to further development of Wikimedia Commons.
His/her habit of strong-arming others and never admitting to errors in judgment as a result of his/her disregard for others' opinions needs to be corrected.The habit of ignoring the opinions of others, persistently pushing own-opinions, and never admitting the error on own opinions, are wrong, and needs to be corrected. --Clusternote (talk) 01:38, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Media archives such as Wikimedia Commons tend to be folksonomy-oriented, and the resulting cluttered categories need to be organized; and on Wikimedia Commons where the community consensuses are respected, debates are inevitable. However, his/her argumentative skills, in which he/she ignores other user's opinions and pushes his own argument, are incompatible with a folksonomy-driven culture, and it may cause of hindrance to further development of Wikimedia Commons.
- I will add, I cannot recall ever seeing an uncivil comment from JopkeB, in which respect they are probably better at this than I am myself, and I don't think my conduct is usually seen as problematic. If you have an example of such a comment, please provide the appropriate diff. (Also, I literally don't know anyone who is more careful to try to spell out an apparent consensus before presuming one exists.)- Jmabel ! talk 19:53, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- In Cases 1-3 above, already I've provided specific examples of his problematic behavior. If you requested the detailed line-by-line diffs of problematic post, I will presented it short after. --Clusternote (talk) 01:38, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- Case 1:
- 2023-07-09 12:06 post by JopkeB: https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Categories_for_discussion/2023/07/Category:Market_exploration_shops&diff=prev&oldid=781690305
- Just before this post, I've post a reliable source and summary, and the initial problem had been resolved. However, he/she did not understand its importance, and repeatedly proposed definitions that contradicted the sources, prolonging the discussion.
- Case 2:
- 2023-12-12 09:16 post by me: https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Categories_for_discussion/2023/12/Category:Services_(economics)&diff=prev&oldid=830118113
- In the above Case 1, his/her problematic behaviour became clear (Ignoring or not understanding other users' posts, and persistently pushing clearly incorrect opinion), so I tried to confirm that he/she would observe the general etiquette of discussion that is required for all discussion participants in general, before the discussion.
- 2023-12-12 post by JopkeB: https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Clusternote&diff=prev&oldid=830174114
- He/she ignored the above confirmation without realizing that he/she had no choice but to answer Yes, and exploded with frustration on the my talk page.
In general, it is impossible to debate with users who disregard the minimum etiquette of discussion.
- Case 3 will be post later, because it will be slightly long. --Clusternote (talk) 02:29, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- I don't see any problems with the discussion style of JopkeB in these examples. The suggetion to shorten the description in Case 1 is a valid suggestion, whether you like it or not. Your suggestion for the description certainly works, but this doesn't mean it can't be improved upon and the best time to try and improve it is during these kind of discussions. In Case 2 I only see a normal suggestion to discuss and possibly merge categories, to which you respond with a borderline civil question - which leads to JopkeB asking you very civilly on your talkpage to explain in more detail what behavior of them you find problematic. Again, your description of his valid question as "explodes with frustration" could be called uncivil, if anything. Kritzolina (talk) 07:09, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
Comment @Clusternote: I don't have an issue with JopkeB in general, nor in the CfD to which you pointed. They may lack perfection, though don't we all.
The category descriptions should be as short as reasonably possible, and I would point you to those at Wikidata for items. If you want to get into a long detailed discussion and explainer, then put it onto the talk page of the category and point to it. References would belong on the talk page. — billinghurst sDrewth 08:02, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
I am shocked by this accusation. I am not aware of any harm. Thanks a lot, @Jmabel, Enhancing999, Kritzolina, and Billinghurst: for standing up for me and for the compliments. I couldn't have done my own defense any better.
For me only some personal remarks remain:
- I was born several decades before Generation Z. But even if a person who is part of this generation (or any other) has a discussion style someone else does not like, then we have to deal with that style. Unless the person is showing improper/uncivil behavior (like name-calling, discrimination, intimidation, making negative remarks about a person instead of talking about the content), everybody may discuss the way (s)he likes. If you do not agree with a statement, summary, conclusion or proposal, just say so and make a better one or propose a correction.
- I prefer to be referred to as she/her.
--JopkeB (talk) 09:57, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
In a normal community, general discussion etiquette requires participants to (1) read and understand the opinions of others, and (2) respond to them in good faith. This is a confirmation of the basic rules of discussion, so agreeing with them is the starting point of the discussion. Conversely, if a user could not agree with them, then that user was considered unfit to be a discussion participant in general. However, this seems to be not the case here at Wikimedia Commons. In Case 3, there is a breach of etiquette in which the answer to the question is ignored and the same question is asked repeatedly, but for some reason this is not considered a problem here at Wikimedia Commons. It is as if some mysterious implicit discussion rule is being applied.
As ordinary people, we base our lives on the general society, not on the internet society where we are constantly fighting, so we dislike being bothered by discussions with unusual discussion rules. I have already seen this kind of problem in several Wikipedia Projects in several languages, which caused me to abandon these projects. On the other hand, I had thought that tha fact Wikimedia Commons has fewer such disadvantages is a great virtue, but this assumption seems to have already collapsed. This is a very unfortunate situation. --Clusternote (talk) 09:07, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- I still don't get your problem. Yes, reading and understanding and then responding in good faith is a basis for civil discussions here and elsewhere. But where exactly do you see a breach of that? Can you give a difflink? Also ... if you saw this kind of problems on several other projects ... did you ever try and work on your end of the communications? Kritzolina (talk) 18:07, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
User:El Luchadorio
editEl Luchadorio (talk · contributions · Statistics · Recent activity · block log · User rights log · uploads · Global account information)
User uploaded numerous insignias of Ukrainian cities. All of the files were licensed as Russian official insignias. In some cases, El Luchadorio named files improperly, so there is no clear indication that images depict insignias under Russian military occupation. Those can be mistakenly used as Ukrainian insignias. In other cases, images depict official Ukrainian insignias with no clear explanation of how those became Russian insignias. For example, today user uploaded file, which duplicates original Ukrainian flag, and now Ukrainian government website listed as a source for Russian official insignia. User also tried to replace license template for already existing files. Yesterday I talked to user about the issue, but new upload indicates that problem remains. Siradan (talk) 10:24, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- Okay, I'll change the license. El Luchadorio (talk) 10:30, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- Everything is fixed. El Luchadorio (talk) 10:35, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- But now File:Flag of Selidovo.svg duplicates original file File:Флаг Селидово.svg. Moreover, I checked the source, which you enlisted for your file, and it depicts a different flag. Siradan (talk) 10:49, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- And you did no changes for files like File:Flag of Soledar.svg Siradan (talk) 10:55, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- The Soledar flag is not used in articles. OK, I'll rewrite the selidovo flag, according to the source. El Luchadorio (talk) 11:00, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- It doesn't matter if uploaded files are used anywhere at the moment. As long as files remain on the platform, descriptions (especially licenses) must be correct. Siradan (talk) 11:18, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- The Soledar flag is not used in articles. OK, I'll rewrite the selidovo flag, according to the source. El Luchadorio (talk) 11:00, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
OperationSakura6144
editNoting for fellow administrators that I have flagged for the third time to the user OperationSakura6144 that their actions in requesting speedy deletion of redirects and unexact duplicates is out of scope. This person does not engage in questions or seeking assistance. I have two options if they continue, either to block, or to inhibit their use of certain templates. This is among either category moves that seem occasionally to occur without community consultation. FYI @Túrelio: who has been servicing some of this user's requests. — billinghurst sDrewth 05:46, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- I'd support a longer block than their previous ones Bedivere (talk) 06:13, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
User:AshleyYakan
edit- AshleyYakan (talk · contributions · Statistics · Recent activity · block log · User rights log · uploads · Global account information)
Copyvio. Last photo was stolen from Associated Press--Trade (talk) 02:49, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Done Blocked for 1 month by Bedivere. The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 06:17, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
Lighthumormonger
editLighthumormonger: Part I
editGreetings, I tagged a few uploads by Lighthumormonger (talk · contribs) as "no permission" or copyright violations.
Unfortunately, LHM appears to be engaged in a deceptive practice of representing the Wikimedia Foundation (WMF) and misrepresenting Commons policies and copyright guidelines.
This email exchange was cited as a grant of permission from "Intuitive Machines, Inc." to grant a public domain license to Commons for a specific photo. It grants no such license.
The original author of the email claims to be an "administrator of the Wikipedia Editors Guild" and a blurb appears to disclaim direct affiliation with WMF, but nevertheless, the respondent appears to believe that the WEG is the WMF, or a part thereof.
The requests from the author of the email discourage any claim of ownership on the photo in question. This seems to be a serious misrepresentation of our licensing and permissions. Perhaps we may discourage watermarking, but this is a bridge too far.
Lighthumormonger is not, as far as I'm aware, a member of COM:VRT or anyone directly responsible for obtaining licenses for media on Commons. It's not clear why this was a private exchange and not sent to VRT as is required by Commons policies. This sort of "third party arrangement" is something that VRT doesn't permit.
Meanwhile, on Metawiki, I had some exchange with this editor about the alleged "WEG" and its presence. These questions were not answered to my satisfaction, but who am I to judge? Elizium23 (talk) 10:13, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- I'm just trying to improve WP one edit at a time here. If Elizium23 would like to discuss any more with me about any of this, my Wikimedia user talk page is open to him for a 'mutually respectful' conversation anytime. Lighthumormonger (talk) 14:02, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
Current evidence and discussions here on Commons include:
- File talk:Odysseus-lander-at-30-degree-angle-on-moon.jpg
- Commons:Deletion requests/File:Lunar-south-pole--with-malapert-a-crater.jpg
- Commons:Deletion requests/File:Nasa--methalox-rocket-launch.jpg
Elizium23 (talk) 20:55, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- Is this a little vendetta against me Elizium? You can delete whatever you want, and that's ok with me. I thought you told the Sysop over at Meta you didn't want any drama? Lighthumormonger (talk) 23:27, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
There's nothing personal, mate, and I wouldn't describe this as "vendetta", but you do you.
You're an excessively polite and considerate writer and every communication you make exudes professional courtesy. Unfortunately for me, I scratched the surface of that façade and found only deception, falsifications and evasiveness. I've identified several situations where you've led people to believe the wrong thing, and these situations pertain to legal, copyright issues and issues that may concern the WMF themselves.
Unfortunately your case is difficult for most admins to correlate and track because you're spreading yourself across several wikis, and conducting off-wiki activities as well. I'm hoping to round up all the relevant evidence so that your case can be examined properly by someone with authority. So I'm just a middleman here.
Anyway, you asked me today to stay off your "user page" but since you're being evasive regarding exactly how to contact you, you'll need to clarify which pages you mean? Commons only? All your talk pages? Should I also avoid contacting your alleged "Wikipedia Editors Guild" email address at Yahoo? You've already pinged me against my express request to cease and desist (I thought I muted you, but it broke through anyway). If I want to delete more of your stuff in the future, you're cool with not knowing about that? Elizium23 (talk) 23:41, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- Whatever. Lighthumormonger (talk) 23:51, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- No, really, I hope y'all can understand my confusion, because you're directing me and others all over the place: your Commons talk page says you don't want to use it, and your User page on Meta says that your User talk page belongs to "The Wikipedia Editors Guild" and you're directing everyone else there. SO is that your personal page, or do you share it with other alleged WEG "admins"? You didn't want to discuss much on there, though, directing me to a seemingly personal freemail account: "light.humor(at)yahoo.com". Do you likewise share that account with the rest of your WEG buddies? I've got to admit that you designed a really cool official logo. It fooled the CEO of a space exploration company! Sadly, nobody is able to contact you at your parked domain "wikipediaeditorsguild.net". So how does one get ahold of you? Inquiring minds want to know. Elizium23 (talk) 23:58, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
Lighthumormonger: Part II
edit- Whatever. Please leave me alone. Delete whatever you want. I'm sure you will save the world from me. Lighthumormonger (talk) 00:54, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
@Lighthumormonger: you are asking to be left alone, but you have not answered any of the substantive issues raised about possibly not obtaining adequate permissions for images, and about possible misrepresentation (remember that the name "Wikimedia" is trademarked). If there is something called the "Wikimedia Editors Group", and if the talk page on Meta that you apparently wish people to use in lieu of your talk page on Commons talks, frankly, rather mysteriously about that group, which it refers to in the first person plural.
You have stated that WMF is "aware" of this group, which implies that they are aware of you using their trademarked name. I, for one, find it very misleading for someone to create their own entity with "Wikimedia" in its name and tell outside parties that they are an "administrator" of that entity.
WMF is a large organization, with hundreds of employees, so it is unclear what you mean when you say that WMD is aware. At the very least, I'd like to see that clarified.
If you may be representing yourself in trying to obtain image licenses for Commons, or if you are misrepresenting that you have obtained a license that meets Commons' requirements when you have not, then that becomes legitimately a Commons issue. I suppose it is OK if you don't want further interaction with the person who raised the issue, but speaking as a Commons admin, the substance of this looks to me like at least a potentially real issue. - Jmabel ! talk 06:33, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- I did ping a couple reps from AffCom, including @Mehman (WMF), who responded to say that there was no record of WEG in his files, but also that WEG was not within scope of AffCom? So it's unsurprising that I contacted the wrong person again, and it doesn't prove that WMF is totally unaware of LHM and WEG, but Mehman, for his part, has disavowed awareness. It's also relevant for me to point out that LHM has a habit of tampering with talk pages and other people's comments, and has substantially edited what I put down on all those talk pages, and thus the contents and context of anyone's comments are not to be trusted without checking the revision histories. Thank you!
- Elizium23 (talk) 06:44, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- Jmabel, this guy has been following me around and pestering me for the last four days. I've grown tired of this. He has already taken it to the ANI board in the WikiMedia Meta section, and there he was told that they don't see an issue. He seems to be entirely fixated and obsessed in trying to cause me trouble. If you or anybody else here might like to discuss the copyright problems with me here in a reasonable fashion and not in an accusatory one, I would be happy to do so. This guy calls me the devil basically. I can't talk with him at all.
- There is a certain quality of dialogue that Wales and Sanger defined as "Good Faith." I think that Jefferson and company defined it as "a presumption of innocence." I don't feel that Elizium has given any real chance for "Good Faith" to exist in our dialogue at all. He has continuously accused me of dishonesty of one form or another from start to finish. If you or somebody else here were willing to attempt to work with me starting with a presumption of innocence, I would certainly be quite happy to work with them.
- I think that Elizium might do much better if he started off his dialogues with other editors based on a presumption of innocence, and not of guilt.
- Thanks, Lighthumormonger (talk) 15:47, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, "following you around" is an accurate description. Sadly, when a disruptive editor feels harrassed and stalked, it's because they're bouncing all around creating problems in various areas, and someone needs to track all that down.
- I first noticed LHM adding rather brazen Original Research to enwiki articles, and I noticed that they're brand-new to the topic area and a rather new account, as well. Then when I dug into the WEG situation at Meta, I found their non-responses to be evasive and disingenuous, so that's when I looked into those Commons uploads and found the really crazy bullshit that transpired off-wiki. Ironically he's back here, asking me to take the discussion off-wiki where it can't be seen by anyone else. I have nothing to say to LHM that shouldn't be seen in public.
- I asked Meta admins to intervene there, but I felt like it was a waste of my time trying to produce diffs that show what an exceedingly kind and polite troll he is, because there was no substantial disruption on that particular wiki.
- I can be an easygoing guy and the best way to get along with me here is by accepting criticism, being honest, following policy, owning up to any mistakes. If LHM would head-on address the issues we're raising and show good faith, I wouldn't have a problem working with them. But I feel like all we're seeing are smoke screens and chaff defenses, so yeah, I've been tenacious about it. Elizium23 (talk) 16:43, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- For the record, I declined the Meta request as there was nothing to from sysops (and for the reasons you mentioned). --SHB2000 (talk) 01:36, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- I can be an easygoing guy and the best way to get along with me here is by accepting criticism, being honest, following policy, owning up to any mistakes. If LHM would head-on address the issues we're raising and show good faith, I wouldn't have a problem working with them. But I feel like all we're seeing are smoke screens and chaff defenses, so yeah, I've been tenacious about it. Elizium23 (talk) 16:43, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oh so I guess I'm not the devil after all, I'm just a lowly "troll," thank you my friend for the 'promotion.' Surely I must be "innocent" now. Golly, gee, wiz! Please leave me alone. Off-wiki, On-wiki.... sometimes a truly meaningful conversation can only be held in true privacy. At least that's my belief. If you are afraid of true privacy Elizium, I apologize. What is it that you are afraid of that I might do to you in a private email conversation? Slip you a Mickey or something? Lighthumormonger (talk) : - ) 16:59, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- Elizium, I have told you multiple times, if you ever truly wanted to get in touch with me, you can do it at the Yahoo address. The offer remains fully open to you (or to anyone else for that matter). I don't know if this is the right place for you to be "monologing with me," but if you ever really wanted to truly dialogue with me, I would certainly be happy to do so at that address. Thanks, Lighthumormonger (talk) 15:33, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
@Elizium23: may I strongly suggest that at this point you bow out of this thread? You have raised your concerns to the admins. Repeating over and over what amounts to "I don't like or trust this user" does not in anyway strengthen the case you have made. In this section, all you have done is derail my attempt to communicate with Lighthumormonger, which is far from helpful. - Jmabel ! talk 21:27, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
And with that, not having received answers, I will also not repeat myself and will bow out of this. I hope some other admin(s) will take this up. At this point, I feel my mind is made up, but on the basis of evidence that does not meet the standard usually expected here, so I should probably just withdraw from the matter. Consider this a recusal. - Jmabel ! talk 21:41, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
Lighthumormonger: Part III
editHow about adressing the questions raised here in public, as they are of public interest? Kritzolina (talk) 17:54, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- OK. Hi Kritzolina, I feel that Elizium has given me a sort of "barrage" here of approximately 10 questions all at once, that I am apparently supposed to answer all at once. Which question do you want me to start with first? Lighthumormonger (talk) : - ) 18:02, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
Just start with an easy one for you ... and then do the next one, and so on ... there is no hurry, just stop throwing blame on others as long as you are not done answering. Kritzolina (talk) 18:31, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- That sounds like a very reasonable and fair "opening question." If you don't mind, I would very much prefer if Elizium could please submit a numbered list of carefully worded questions first, so his questions can be properly and fairly addressed. Currently his many questions seem to be all over the place and worded in many different ways. I think it's only fair to request that Elizium first submit a carefully worded and numbered list of questions here, so we might be better able to address his questions. Would that be OK?
- Thanks, Lighthumormonger (talk) 18:41, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
No, it is not ok, I do mind. You are doing things here on Commons that look at least very shady. Try to explain yourself and your Wikipedia Editor's guild. You could start with explaining what WMF knows about all this and who is your contact person there. Kritzolina (talk) 18:54, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- OK, as I told Elizium, who apparently did not believe me, we have been in contact with the WMF. Approximately one month ago we had an hour long conversation with Shaun Spalding, WMF Counsel. Mr. Spalding discussed the legality (or lack thereof) of the WEG. As best as he could determine, there was nothing illegal about it. I don't really like giving out names of WMF employees here, but if that's what you want we can do that. Lighthumormonger (talk) 19:09, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- To better understand the WEG, I might suggest you review the page: My Meta Talk page. If after reviewing that page you may have any further questions about the WEG, I would be happy to answer them for you here. Lighthumormonger (talk) : - ) 19:20, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- To Commons admin: given the email linked above, particularly point 2 in the email, it seems that any uploads from WEG members (including Lighthumormonger) should be heavily scrutinised, and it seems reasonable that if WEG members continue to upload their upload privileges should be removed. COM:VRT is the appropriate process to obtain licence releases, not via third party emails. Commander Keane (talk) 22:14, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- Totally agree. Reading through this whole thing there's clearly something fishy going on here and it's totally inappropriate to get permission for us to host images through a private email. That's what COM:VRT is for. Their overall behavior should really be questioned, scrutinized, and dealt with on other projects along with it but that doesn't stop us from doing what we can to stop their actions on our end in the meantime. --Adamant1 (talk) 22:20, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- There are so many problems with that email. A few:
- Using the term "Administrator", which all Wikimedia users know has a significant meaning in Wikimedia. This is a huge misrepresentation. The general misrepresentation worked, with the person responding "The Wikipedia Editors Guild is responsible for infinite value to humanity, and I appreciate the work y'all do."
- Other large gaps in Wikipedia and Commons policy
- The above suggests that Lighthumormonger is not very familiar with Wikipedia or Commons policies and guidelines, certainly not enough to use the word "administrator", and is either mistakenly or maliciously misrepresenting themselves to the general public. Imagine how the person from Intuitive Machines feels, having provided a photo to an important sounding Wikipedia person, only to see it deleted (File:Odysseus-lander-at-30-degree-angle-on-moon.jpg). Is this something that Commons administrators can take action on? Consigned (talk) 17:21, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- To Commons admin: given the email linked above, particularly point 2 in the email, it seems that any uploads from WEG members (including Lighthumormonger) should be heavily scrutinised, and it seems reasonable that if WEG members continue to upload their upload privileges should be removed. COM:VRT is the appropriate process to obtain licence releases, not via third party emails. Commander Keane (talk) 22:14, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- As I understand it, the WMF is quite capable of taking care of itself, and of making its own decisions. We will await instructions from them if we might have crossed any lines anywhere. Currently due to our work, the WMF was the first to legally release that IM photo to the public in a legally copyright free format. If you guys want to delete it, its on you. Lighthumormonger (talk) : - ) 04:40, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Lighthumormonger: in my experience the WMF struggles with legal issues. We wait 6+ years for legal advice on software improvements, they do nothing when Wikimedia wikis violate terms of service (link), and now they are meant to deal with you? Anyhow, you said you would answer a list of questions, so:
- How many members does WEG have?
- What are their Wikimedia usernames?
- Which organisations have you sent letters to requesting photos?
- What are the corresponding uploads?
- Commander Keane (talk) 05:03, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Lighthumormonger: in my experience the WMF struggles with legal issues. We wait 6+ years for legal advice on software improvements, they do nothing when Wikimedia wikis violate terms of service (link), and now they are meant to deal with you? Anyhow, you said you would answer a list of questions, so:
Shaun Spalding might be aware of the existence of the group and have no issue with its name (checking this is within the scope of his role), but I heavily doubt the copyright issue has been approved. I might just check with WMF legal ... but aside from it, copyright issues affect us as a communiy first and foremost and are not just a thing for WMF to deal with. Copyright violations on our project can not be tolerated. So please answer the questions of Commander Keane, so we can start to look deeper into the issue. Kritzolina (talk) 07:24, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Kritzolina, you have my word at this point, if that's what you want. If you want this I will put it in writing right now "I Lighthumormonger, will personally never upload another image to Wikipedia/Wikimedia in my lifetime," if that is what you want. Is that what you want? There are no hard feelings here. I would be perfectly happy to make that statement if that is what you want. At this point, my performing any further image uploads here on my part, would probably no longer be very compatible with my current role at the WEG. So I'm perfectly happy to make that statement right now. Do you want me to? Lighthumormonger (talk) : - ) 14:22, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Regarding Commander's questions:
- Right now we have only six members.
- The only two organizations that we have sent letters to are Spacex and Intuitive Machines. We never got a reply from Spacex. The letter to Spacex was simply a technical inquiry, and had nothing to do with images or copyrights.
- The only upload that we ever made using our own individually acquired "copyright permissions" was the "IM image" upload, The one that shows the Odysseus spacecraft on the Moon canted at a 30° angle.
- Due to the various forms of harassment that our editors might be subjected to at WP, just as I have been subjected to over the last five days at WP, we prefer to keep the names of our members as confidential information. This WEG policy is somewhat similar to how the WMF typically respects the confidentiality of its own editors as it might relate to other organizations outside of the WMF/WP. As I understand it, typically the WMF only engages individual members of its "editorship" with outside organizations, with the permission of those editors that they would like to have engage with other organizations outside of the WMF/WP.
- Thank you for the good questions,
- Lighthumormonger (talk) 14:57, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- For the sake of clarity, we did write a letter to a sweet lady who had taken the photograph of F Lee Bailey's tombstone, and she gave us permission to use her photograph. I didn't include that letter above because she was not an "organization." Of course you can delete that image too if you want. Our purpose is not to make a name for ourselves but to help Wikipedia, but if you wish to delete both of our photos, have at it. Lighthumormonger (talk) 15:40, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Being harassed as an editor at Wikipedia is no picnic. I will tell you that much. Dang! It really sssuuuucccc..., oh never mind. Lighthumormonger (talk) : - ) 15:54, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- The "IM Photo" which had its copyrights legally removed by the president of Intuitive Machines so that Wikipedia could use it, is still appearing in the article and is here. So if you guys want to delete this photograph because you didn't get it in before we did, it's up to you. If you want to disappoint the president of Intuitive Machines, to destroy Wikipedia's claim that it was the first to release that photo, and to bolix up the article, it's on you. Lighthumormonger (talk) 18:18, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
Lighthumormonger: Part IV
editWhy do you want to go around the COM:VRT process? There are many independent groups contributing to the project but all these groups use the VRT to archive the permissions they obtained. GPSLeo (talk) 18:46, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- I will review the link above that you have kindly provided to the VRT process and get back with you shortly. We are happy to work together with processes that are already in place, so long as we do not feel that such processes might be in some sense "overly restrictive."
- In the years that I have edited at Wikipedia, I've always uploaded images while experiencing a certain level of trepidation because sometimes it seemed that about half the time images were rejected for reasons which seemed to make no sense at all to me. As a lowly editor, I did not question the reasons, but I always wondered about them. I just simply stopped uploading images at one point.
- Now with all of the harassment that I have experienced in the commons area over the last few days, I think I might be starting to remember why I eventually stopped uploading images all together. Thanks for the good question GPSLeo. Lighthumormonger (talk) 18:57, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- AFTER PERUSING THE VRT PAGE: It never occurred to me to use the VRT system to submit an image. After remembering what they do over there at VRT, it does not look like they are really set up to routinely specialize in dealing directly with image copyright questions. Unless they were really set up for that, that just doesn't seem to make intuitive logical sense to me. Thanks for the good question GPSLeo. Lighthumormonger (talk) 19:08, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- You are writing that you edited Wikipedia for years and uploaded photos. Before February 2024 you only uploaded one photo. The other uploads are COM:OVERWRITE guideline violations on others works. That does not make sense. GPSLeo (talk) 19:19, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- I'm well aware that Commons makes its own decisions, but I'd just note that Lighthumormonger has now been indef blocked on en.wp and meta, largely over concerns about this shady organization they claim to represent. Just Step Sideways (talk) 20:05, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Block on enwiki now upgraded to a checkuser block. Grandpallama (talk) 20:42, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Yeah, this is just semi-elaborate trolling. I think that is fairly obvious at this point but none of the admins seem to have reached the same conclusion. Just Step Sideways (talk) 22:20, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Hi all! Sorry to pipe up again but it looks like the sock drawer has been thoroughly sniffed, except that I suspect that the IPv6 range 2601:642:C401:340::/64 (talk · contribs) may well belong to our man Scottperry (talk · contribs) here, because LHM fiddled with a user talk page here on Commons. Elizium23 (talk) 03:36, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
- Yeah, this is just semi-elaborate trolling. I think that is fairly obvious at this point but none of the admins seem to have reached the same conclusion. Just Step Sideways (talk) 22:20, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Block on enwiki now upgraded to a checkuser block. Grandpallama (talk) 20:42, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- I'm well aware that Commons makes its own decisions, but I'd just note that Lighthumormonger has now been indef blocked on en.wp and meta, largely over concerns about this shady organization they claim to represent. Just Step Sideways (talk) 20:05, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- You are writing that you edited Wikipedia for years and uploaded photos. Before February 2024 you only uploaded one photo. The other uploads are COM:OVERWRITE guideline violations on others works. That does not make sense. GPSLeo (talk) 19:19, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
User Saadfghjkl998877665599
edit- Saadfghjkl998877665599 (talk · contributions · Statistics · Recent activity · block log · User rights log · uploads · Global account information) : Posts much nonsense, abusive use of deletion requests, vandalism; several other violations against guidelines --PantheraLeo1359531 😺 (talk) 10:17, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Done Blocked by Achim55. Yann (talk) 14:11, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
Amar67
edit- Amar67 (talk · contributions · Statistics · Recent activity · block log · User rights log · uploads · Global account information)
Uploads blatant advertisement files and when File:Silver's Product Ranges.png they reuploaded it to File:Group 1.png. Jonteemil (talk) 20:04, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Done Blocked them as a spam-only account. The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 22:38, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
Alexismeshi
edit
MarchJuly
edit
Proposed interaction ban between Dronebogus and Just Step Sideways
edit
Chhanchhana zote picture
edit- Chhanchhana zote picture (talk · contributions · Statistics · Recent activity · block log · User rights log · uploads · Global account information)
Yet another obvious sock of Category:Sockpuppets of Chhanchhana zote hmar. Jonteemil (talk) 10:38, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- Done Blocked. Yann (talk) 12:03, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- I'm beginning to think this user is just being foolish or does not understand at all the Commons rules, based on their poor communication skills in proper English. I don't meant this as an insult, much on the contrary, I am beginning to feel sorry for their inability to properly communicate. I would be up to giving them a chance to start afresh if they promise not to create any more socks, sticking with a single account, and provided that they stop repeatedly uploading the same pictures with or without watermarks. I mean, it's obviously not okay to go out and create dozens of socks anyway... Bedivere (talk) 06:44, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- Competence is required and I just don't see that. Jonteemil (talk) 21:32, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- This is not a misunderstanding of guidelines. This is clearly intentional. The person sent me around 30 spam mails. GPSLeo (talk) 04:23, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Competence is required and I just don't see that. Jonteemil (talk) 21:32, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- I'm beginning to think this user is just being foolish or does not understand at all the Commons rules, based on their poor communication skills in proper English. I don't meant this as an insult, much on the contrary, I am beginning to feel sorry for their inability to properly communicate. I would be up to giving them a chance to start afresh if they promise not to create any more socks, sticking with a single account, and provided that they stop repeatedly uploading the same pictures with or without watermarks. I mean, it's obviously not okay to go out and create dozens of socks anyway... Bedivere (talk) 06:44, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
Quickero005
editQuickero005 (talk · contributions · Move log · block log · uploads · Abuse filter log) continues uploading copyvios 10 days after Yann warned them. Günther Frager (talk) 15:46, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- Done by EugeneZelenko, 1 week banned. modern_primat ඞඞඞ ----TALK 21:12, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
Commons:Deletion requests/File:Donald J Trump (realDonaldTrump) Twitter - публикация от 2020-05-29.png
editWas closing the DR discussion after barely four hours strictly speaking necessary?--Trade (talk) 17:33, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- @The Squirrel Conspiracy: --Trade (talk) 17:33, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- I disagreed to the speedy request but you did not mention the reason for that. GPSLeo (talk) 17:44, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- What? Trade (talk) 19:04, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- I regularly go through the current day's DR and action nominations that fall under the CSD, especially F1, F10, G7, and G10, so that when the week is up, the list of DRs is less daunting. In this case I thought that the F3 was correct and actioned it, but it appears to be disputed due to the former president's use of his private account for official business as opposed to using the official account. The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 19:58, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- Sorry, I accidentally wrote I instead of you. You did not mention why you changed the speedy request to a regular deletion request. GPSLeo (talk) 04:18, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- What? Trade (talk) 19:04, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- I disagreed to the speedy request but you did not mention the reason for that. GPSLeo (talk) 17:44, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- this place for "user problems" not "copyright". check: Commons:Village_pump/Copyright modern_primat ඞඞඞ ----TALK 21:10, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- And the user problem is that the DR was closed before any real discussion had a chance to take place Trade (talk) 21:20, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Trade: See my response above. Thinning the herd is pretty common and is done so that we can make the already severely backlogged DR process as manageable as possible. This is the first time in probably several hundred such deletions that it's been an issue, and it's currently being reviewed in requests for undeletion, so things are working as well as they ever do around here. Hope this suffices. The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 22:25, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- And the user problem is that the DR was closed before any real discussion had a chance to take place Trade (talk) 21:20, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
Photographer Lalchhanhima Zote
edit- Photographer Lalchhanhima Zote (talk · contributions · Statistics · Recent activity · block log · User rights log · uploads · Global account information)
Yet another obvious sock of Category:Sockpuppets of Chhanchhana zote hmar. Jonteemil (talk) 21:31, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
Alisahib2001 (talk · contributions · Statistics · Recent activity · block log · User rights log · uploads · Global account information) re-uploading non-free logos immediately after deletion, despite multiple warnings: [1] [2] [3] and so on. Quick1984 (talk) 02:58, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- Done. One week block. Taivo (talk) 16:23, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
"stop harrasing me please..."
edithttps://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3ANanahuatl&oldid=prev&diff=900133255
https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Nanahuatl&action=history
bro... there was a good question with valid answer replied by me and he removed that 15 minutes later.
and extra, IP people swarming in my user talk page in turkish wikipedia, and Nanahuatl keep getting them out, i appreciate it. so, i want more, i need 1 month protection for user talk page. so, i requested this from him and what? he removed that 15 minutes later.
and that maked me a bit of angry and i sent him a wikilove. "diplomacy barnstar", yeah, he is good at diplomacy by removing my valid requests and answers. he removed that approx. 10 minutes later.
and finally he said "stop harrasing me please...". WHAT? if im harrassing because of these, then give me a block or whatever. i dont know.
-
to clarify more: 1,5 years ago... i asked him multiple questions with 2 months break, you can see: https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Nanahuatl&oldid=741910576#File:Countries_that_published_a_support_message_for_2023_Turkey%E2%80%93Syria_earthquakes.svg . after an admin and the user told me stop, i stopped. ok. but after 1,5 years, i requested something little and even answer a question in his usertalk(he said "you should find another user to ask) that happend.... am i harrasive user? is it me that become after all these effort and work?
in conclusion, am i wrong? modern_primat ඞඞඞ ----TALK 19:00, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- In general, if a particular user asks you to leave them alone, it's probably best to do so. Was something going on here that could not be handled by anyone else? - Jmabel ! talk 19:25, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
yes... you are right, i should never, ever again interact with this user on commons again.did i really something wrong? no.... but i shouldnt did this, i knew he would call me "harrassive".. i just want to not seen as enemy by people, im tired of this situation.- in the end of the day, i became the "harrasive" user. man.... modern_primat ඞඞඞ ----TALK 19:39, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- I understand this has become an unwritten rule on any project, but I don't exactly agree with the logic of it – especially as I've been in instances where users have done this to evade scrutiny. Coming back to this specific situation, I don't think modern primat is in the wrong for doing so, and I expect Nanahuatl to give an apology for the frivolous accusations of "harassment". --SHB2000 (talk) 01:55, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
- modern primat is a helpful user. Lionel Cristiano (talk) 22:28, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
Wait, let's get this straight. There was a dispute on the Turkish language Wikipedia in which you were the target of harassment. You did not like an admin decision Nanahuatl took there in lifting protection from your talkpage. You two had a conflict a few years ago. So you bring the current conflict to Commons by giving them a barnstar with a highly ironical message. And now you are not happy with the message they send to you while removing it? Did I get this right? --Kritzolina (talk) 07:03, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
- first, IP people are not doing harrasive things in my turkish user talk page. i believe we need actual users on my tr wiki u.t.p. for my appeal.
- second, nanahuatl is not admin around here. i didnt write exactly. i requested him to make a request for protection for my talk page. so, he would go to admin in tr wiki and will ask a protection
- third, "stop harrassing me" just made me upset a little bit. if im harrassing give me a block. @Kritzolina modern_primat ඞඞඞ ----TALK 08:28, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks for clearing up the misunderstandings. Still, the main things that are relevant for here
- The actual problem is on tr.WP, it should not be brought to Commons. In the future please try to solve conflicts on the Wiki that is affected.
- Your barnstar was not appropriate. This kind of irony can feel harassing. It is appropriate to ask you to stop this behaviour. The wording how Nanahuatl might have been harsher than necessary - still you should not take it as an insult, but as a sign that you went a bit overboard with your irony.
- I am closing this without an admin action. I am advising you to keep away from people who ask you to stop interacting. I am also advising you not to use this kind of irony in further interactions. It usually just leads to unnecessary escalations. Kritzolina (talk) 08:54, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
- Not done No admin action necessary. --Kritzolina (talk) 08:55, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks for clearing up the misunderstandings. Still, the main things that are relevant for here
Arial Bold
editUser Arial Bold (talk · contribs) and their IP have made false claims about me. In addition to uploading an image I made and claiming it as their own, they are also claiming that my links to the original image are dead and that I have given them "no proof". They have also asked me to stop removing content from Rogers Plaza on Wikipedia. It's clear the user is not here in good faith. TenPoundHammer (talk) 21:14, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- @TenPoundHammer: The Wikipedia side of this is not relevant. Some links would be helpful in terms of the Commons side. And you seem not to have notified them on their user talk page about this discussion, which I will do.
- I want to add to this: my main experience with User:Arial Bold is that they do not seem to understand what is meant by "own work" and show little or no understanding of copyright. See, for example, File:Rogers Homested.jpg and the current DR for that. Also, I presume User:74.204.120.66 is User:Arial Bold (otherwise the former's remarks at Commons:Deletion requests/File:Rogers Homested.jpg make no sense). That means this edit is not drive-by vandalism by an IP, but someone removing the link to a DR from one of their own uploaded files. - Jmabel ! talk 01:18, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
- I'd support a block if they continue any further. --SHB2000 (talk) 07:27, 18 July 2024 (UTC)